While encouraging students to live a healthy lifestyle and providing resources to do so is great, forcing people to lose a certain amount of weight to graduate is not a good idea.

Permanent weight loss requires a major lifestyle change. Both weight loss and gain are a deeply personal journey that varies with every person. Everyone has different circumstances and different ways of dealing with their own nutrition/fitness.

I just think the school is handling the situation badly. Some students struggling with weight loss may feel even worse about their bodies. Some students may go about healthy eating/working out the wrong way - it becomes about losing as much as quickly as possible to graduate, not about treating your body right. (They may even gain the weight back after leaving school?)

I'm assuming students who are deemed uneligible to graduate must pay for this extra semester worth of gym classes as well? So not cool.

As long as that is a clearly stated policy when they enroll, I say it's perfectly fine. Why not give well-educated people yet another opportunity to better their lives. Being in a healthy weight range is nothing but a positive. If they can't do it, they should attend a different school.

Is this also being done to students whose BMIs are under 18.5? Hmm, no, doesn't look like it.

Hey, if you're going to ignore the fact that BMI is worthless as a measure of health and single out one allegedly "unhealthy" end of the spectrum, you'd better be doing it with both "unhealthy" ends.

Having a bmi over 30 is not simply being "a little on the chubby side" but rather you are dangerously overweight. If the school had required smokers to quit if they wanted to graduate, I don't think many people would be that upset - in fact many people are quick to tell smokers that it's an awful habit and that they should stop. However when the school requires obese people (again, we're talking obese) to lose weight, thereby also potentially prolonging their lives, people are outraged.

Splintera: You have no idea what a BMI of 30 actually looks like, do you?

I'm 5' 4", 165 pounds. Do the math. My BMI is just under 30. Oh, and I wear a size 10-12, depending on the jeans. I was under the impression that this wasn't "fat." Apparently, I was wrong.

I also run three days a week and bike 5 to 20 miles every single day. I just ran a 5K this past weekend without a single walk break. The last sick day I took was for food poisoning about two years ago.

And please, PLEASE don't even pretend you care about the health of "obese" people like me. Just admit that you can't stand it when fat people don't fit into your hateful, bigoted little stereotypes and don't hate themselves as much as you think they should.

Splintera - So you agree, then, that students with a BMI of under 18.5 should be required to gain weight to graduate?

Wow, this seems really harsh to me. Especially considering the fact that some people might be like me and actually gain weight through the stresses of graduating (final papers, presentations, tests)...my last quarter as an undergrad was certainly not kind to my waistline. I feel sorry for those students

"Having a bmi under 18.5 is not simply being "a little skinny" but rather you are dangerously underweight. If the school had required smokers to quit if they wanted to graduate, I don't think many people would be that upset - in fact many people are quick to tell smokers that it's an awful habit and that they should stop. However when the school requires anorexic people (again, we're talking anorexic) to gain weight, thereby also potentially prolonging their lives, people are outraged."

Hmm.

5'4 165 is overweight.

No one is forcing people to lose weight. It's a CHOICE to attend Lincoln University. If you're not OK with their requirements for graduation, then don't attend.

Requiring people to take health education courses and P.E in school is a great idea. But forcing them to lose weight before they graduate is just wrong. It is no body elses business what you weigh and how you present yourself. So until it is illegal to be fat, you should be able to graduate college at any size.

Um, I'm sorry, but 165 lbs at 5'4 is definitely fat. (And I am doubting it's all muscle.)

I don't think the poster saying she was 5'4 165 was saying she was not slightly overweight, but if you read about her dress size, living habits etc. she leads a very healthy lifestyle. She gets more exercise them many people who are technically not "overweight" and in my opinion a size 10 or 12 is not obese as splintera put it. So why write that--we can read, we just also can comprehend the whole picture. I think her point was spot on, especially since splintera may not know exactly what a BMI of 30 looks like on all people.

I also agree with the comments that college and stress do pack on the pounds, I know law school did for me. And that if they make one extreme with BMI for overweight people they should do the same for those who are underweight or smokers etc. etc. That is opening such a can of worms.

Why not just require a nutrition class for all students in the core curriculum? I too went to a private university and I think I gained much more from my studies then this, if I or my classmates had been singled out like this I would not have went there.

I think the wording of this post is a bit misleading. "Too fat to graduate" implies that people might not be permitted to graduate based on their weight. I was very taken aback when I read it because it would be very wrong to deny someone a diploma based solely on their weight. Looking at the actual article though, they aren't actually preventing people from graduating, but rather they're just requiring them to take a P.E. class. NOWHERE does it say that people who have a BMI over 30 AFTER taking the P.E. class will be prevented from graduating.

I think the better option would be to require that everyone take a nutrition class.

I originally agreed with the school on this one but I'm willing to admit that I didn't know what a BMI of 30 looked like. I was going by the picture honestly. I know it's a can of worms to start putting restrictions on people (for weight, smoking, drugs, etc.) but I think it's a step in the right direction. My school is transitioning into a smoke free campus which I support completely. I've also noticed that no one is objecting to the fact that students caught using or selling drugs get expelled. It's not the same but it's in a similar vein: if you are doing something that is harmful to yourself or others there will be consequences. I agree with all the people who say that under 18.5 should be added to this group and think that there should be a freshman "weigh in" involved in the physical so that students are aware of what's expected of them; 4 years is a much better time frame for acquiring healthy habits than a semester.

Cool. However, instead of just having a PE class, ALL students should take a basic nutrition class. Just because teens may weigh less, that does not mean that they are healthy. Also, I became overweight in college. At private schools, I know the goal is for these grads to go off to college in the fall so a healthy living curriculum is necessary.

Also, people who naturally have a BMI under 18.5 are very healthy. Before I gained some extra muscle through running, I had a BMI of 17.5 and doctors always congratulated me on exercising and having a healthy weight.

OOPS, didn't realize this was a college...So they DEFINITELY need the Basic Nutrition class as a requirement.

Anonymous 5 - you would be able to graduate, you're under 30. So don't get why you're complaining. Are you trying to argue that people who weigh more than you do are healthy?

Aaaand for those complaining this wouldn't fly for underweighters - my school had a policy that it wouldn't allow underweight girls to enroll. You had to prove you were healthy when you signed up, and the admissions ladies had a scale at ready every quarter when you went in person to sign up for classes. They started doing this when they realized that there was a huge problem with eating disorders among the girls in the fashion design major, and ended up instituting the policy throughout the college (I was in Graphic Design with mostly guys and our major didn't really have that problem but the few girls still had to weigh in).

Oh and I do agree with the person who said that if they want to do this it should only apply to people who enroll after the policy is in place. It is unfair to hold someone's degree for ransom and force him/her to pay tuition in the interim. They should also put classes or programs in place to help the students reach these goals....maybe as part of the core curriculum?

Chloe, I'm with you. The school doesn't require people to lose weight to graduate. It requires them to take the course if they are overweight. I'd be curious to see if the course also involves some sort of nutrition lessons; I would think a course combining exercise/nutrition/lifestyle lessons would be most effective.

On a side note, 5'4" 165 would be a BMI of 28.3, a full 10 pounds away from a BMI of 30. And, Splintera is right, medically, a BMI of 30 or greater is considered obese. Of course, there are exceptions for things like people who have an extraordinary amount of muscle, etc.

To those who are saying the school should make students with a BMI of 18.5 or lower take the class, look at the BMI numbers again. 25-29.9 is overweight. The 30 where obese starts it a full 5 points over the point where overweight starts. So, that argument only logically holds if you say they should make students with a BMI of 13.5 or lower take the class.

If they are going to require it, then they need to make it a requirement for everyone, not just peple who have a certain BMI. The assumption that health can be determined by your BMI is false. Like was mentioned above an underweight individual is not required and that is also unhealthy not to mention that many people with an "normal" BMI live very unhealthy lifestyles that may lead to obesity down the road or other halth issues.

I also disagree with Anons statemnt above "If the school had required smokers to quit if they wanted to graduate, I don't think many people would be that upset - in fact many people are quick to tell smokers that it's an awful habit and that they should stop". People would most definitely be upset if this were to happen. It would never happen though because that takes away people's freedom of choice and that is a very slippery slope.

I feel this country as a whole needs a lesson in health and fitness but to confine that lesson to a certain group of people is terribly nearsighted.

That's a good point, kclu. I've always thought that colleges should require some sort of health/fitness class. They offer so many different classes (water aerobics, pilates, self-defense, etc.) in such a wide variety of different fitness styles and so few students take advantage of them.

I'm curious as to whether the school does a BMI test before accepting students. If not how do you take someone's money that you know isn't up to your school's standards?

Required classes are not a new thing, but should be an overall requirement not a targeted one.

My college had a class that freshmen were required to take on early Friday mornings (7am) that dealt with excessive drinking, drug use, date rape, study tips and various other topics that you might deal with in college. The reason for the Friday morning class was because most upperclassmen didn't have classes on Fridays until mid/late afternoons which made Thursday the hot party night. The required class pretty much kept most freshmen from attending anything on Thursdays. If you missed more than two classes you were put on probation, three classes and it was an automatic fail. Showing up hungover was worse than not showing up as the teachers would bombard you with questions. The class was mostly participation based and sleeping or not participating was considered an automatic not present for the day. Every student was required to have passed this class in order to graduate, and it was an easy class to fail. From what I remember it was also a free class the first time you took it, and one of the most expensive classes you could imagine if you failed. Something like 3x's the per credit fee.

According to the studies it helped a lot of kids that were away from home for the first time not go crazy.

Also the problem with basing this on BMI is that body mass index is based on a person's weight and height. I know quite a few athlete's who's BMI is way above 30 but their body fat measurement is in the 10-15% body fat. If they are just having kids jump on a scale and then calculating their BMI they could be way off, especially considering that muscle weighs more than fat.

Splintera : That means that the Williams sisters would be dangerously overweight as would a majority of the NFL, and most body builders and boxers.

I'm concerned that since you can get out of the class by having a low BMI kids are going to crash diet by any means possible to not have to spend their money or the 3 hours per week that the class is. Considering that the college is claiming their reasons for the policy is because the majority of it's student body is more likely to suffer from high rates of heart disease and diabetes being African American. For those of you who aren't aware Lincoln University in PA is a historically black college. Having kids bring down their BMI rapidly could cause those very things they are claiming that it is trying to prevent. It's also promoting the stereotype that unless you are thin you cannot be successful.

For those who say that having a BMI of over 30 is dangerous, please speak for yourselves. I have a BMI of 30, and I kick box on a regular basis. I get more vegetables in one day than most do in a week. And I'm STILL FAT. You can be completely healthy and have a BMI of 30. Most people don't even KNOW what a BMI of 30 looks like:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77367764@N00/1478991521/in/set-721576021990...

Also, let it be known that we CHANGED the BMI scale, which made 55% of the US population overweight by no fault of their own. Meaning people didn't get lazier, the numbers got smaller. It's just like saying being 5'5" is tall: you get a lot more tall people. Not because they had a growth spurt, but because you changed the category.

are they for real???????? I know TONS of nurses who smoke, should they not be allowed to be certified as nurses since they are not "proving" that they have had an education about health? This is ridiculous. People can know all there is to know about healthy eating and still over eat and eat junk food.

My school requires students to take two courses in P.E. in order to complete our degree plans, and I think it's a great idea. This is geeky, but I didn't know how fun badminton was until I tried it!

30BMIandKick and even outsung make a crucial point...I feel like many would look at the picture Fit posted as being representative of a 30 BMI, which it is clearly not. That was just the point I was trying to make.

I think a class like Akasha mentioned would be helpful. And I was thinking about this earlier and figured that for this to be required to graduate then it would have to be in place when you enrolled, so like others clarified it is just required to take as curriculum, not to get a diploma. When core requirements change while you are enrolled you are usually (at least at my university) grandfathered in to the core requirements that were in place when you enrolled, so if this did affect graduation at one point it "should" only apply to new students who knew what they were getting into.

I think that this would increase the use of crash or fad diets, where weight loss is extreme, unhealthy and lasts as long as the next burger.

I would prefer to see the student have to demonstrate an understanding of living a healthy lifestyle, including food choices and exercise, and the college educating the kids on unhealthy choices.

Ah, BMI. We do know that it's been acknowledged that it's innacurate and based on incorrect assumptions, right? See here: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/64577.php

Now that that's been established, I respect the sentiment here, and I think requiring basic health and nutrition classes, as well as a standard of physical activity, is a fantastic plan. However, it isn't just the heavier folk who could use a wake-up call to a healthier lifestyle. I found the nutrition class I took during undergrad (as an elective) to be immensely valuable, and I sure could use that extra motivation these days to get my butt to the gym.

For the record, I was a varsity rower with a BMI of 29. 205lbs sounds like a lot before you see it stretched over a 5'11" athlete.

College degrees should be about education not about weight or smoking or any other personal choice habits. Having said that, I think requiring a nutrition class or a PE or health course is a great idea since it fits with the overall goal of graduating an educated society. I do not think that forcing people to change habits is right, but educating them is.

Cool! But obesity sometimes can't be controlled, there should be medical exceptions, such as a thiroid problem.

The school gives fair notice here though - if you enroll knowing that they have this as a requirement/stipulation, you don't really have room to complain. That is the same as complaining about a professor's testing methods at the end of the semester when you were notified at the beginning of the semester on your syllabus. There are no rules of "Fairness" broken here if you truly look at the definition.

I think it's kind of a dumb prerequisite...it implies that all people that are fat obviously need to learn to be active while all people that are "normal" weight don't need it. I know a lot of thin/normal weight people that are very unhealthy and sedentary and I know a lot of fit but fat people, so why not just make everyone who enrolls at the college take a PE class?

This is absurd! Education needs these criteria now? As long as you have the money to spend for school, brain to use during classes, you have the body to do the curricular and extra curricular activities you're good to go... And much more if you are willing to be educated, you're good for admission! This some kind of a joke. Education is for everybody. It's not for the rich alone, it's not for the thin or good body built but for everybody!

Well I attend Lincoln University PA and yes I DO have to this course. At first I was going to write a bunch of letters, protest this class and any ideas around it but i realized that it will help to improve who I am as a person.

My only issue is why is this only 1 credit. I think it should be two because its a "work out/healthy eating" course

I see that many of you are saying that this school is doing something very wrong. I must say that this school is actually doing a great job trying to educate and make people aware of how unhealthy being fat is. BMI of 30 is obese. Not simply overweight but OBESE. As lilkimbo said, if someone has a BMI of 13 they shouldn't be able to graduate as well because that's the equivalent of a sickishly underweight as BMI of 30 is sickishly overweight. The concept of a healthy person in a fat body is ridiculous. You can run and jump and do whatever but if your waist line is bigger than it is supposed to be then you are fat and you probably will end up with a cardiovascular disease. I am 5'6 and I weight 135 lbs. That's a normal weight range. Being 5'4 at 165 lbs is fat. Just because you exercise it doesn't mean that you have a proper diet.
Anyway, this school is trying to create a bunch of well rounded individuals who are not only educated about philosophy and history of the world but also have some kind of an awareness of their own body.

Well, if the requirement was made clear in the beginning, it's fair game as far as I'm concerned. Nobody forced these people to go to that school and if they agreed to it, it's ridiculous to come back later and say bad things about it.

However, I do think a nutritional course may be better. And to all those who thinks PE should be mandatory, I disagree. Or at least if it's a course that counts towards your GPA. PE is the most unfair course out there because you're judged by how you do compared with others. I can't run fast to save my life, and I get penalized for it during high school even when I've tried my best. It's stupid.

I know for sure I will avoid colleges with mandatory PE class at all cost... actually, thinking about it, I did. I looked at a college what had PE as core and immediately threw the application form in the trash.

Does the school also provide extensive nutritional education to students? Fitness alone won't help you lose weight...I learned that the hard way.

Re: Requiring individuals with a BMI

I really think this school, and most of the posters here, are totally missing the point. A college is designed to prepare you for a career. That's it. Nothing more. It is not there to teach you how to live, think, or act. It is supposed to teach you how to do the job you want to do and a few other basics so you don't walk around acting like a Neanderthal. I am not sure how someone's incredibly personal choice of diet, nutrition program, or even whether or not to smoke, is being worked into what is essentially a job training program. And don't most college students drink and sleep around on a more than regular basis? How would you feel if THAT personal choice was violated? Or do you actually think that we should move into a 1984 mentality completely? I am really glad that you all are proud of your own healthy lifestyles, I am proud of my own, but butt out of other people's personal decisions that do not harm you one iota, and quit being so judgemental of other people. And btw, have you ever stopped to think that those that are overweight more than likely already know and would like to change this fact? And hey, maybe they have something medically wrong with them that is causing weight gain. Ever heard of a thyroid problem? It's not a myth and is very real for a small minority of people. For those than advocate that ALL students have physical education to help the overweight save face- these kinds of requirements are why we rank low in three out of four subjects compared to other countries. Want to know why a country with less money per capita than we do ranks better in education? Because they don't bog it down with fluffy, pseudo-liberal, feel-good projects. They study math, and science, and history. People already know that being obese is not healty. No one wants to be fat in a country that hates fat. The vast majority of people know that Big Macs are not a health food and that running is good for you. An extra class in school (you guys must not have gone to college much as physical education is required in two years of high school and two semesters of college in most places already) is not going to help the situation by much when it comes to personal choices that were never your business anyway. This is not education, just imposing your own beliefs on someone else you don't even know.

5' 4" and 165 here--hey, folks, thanks for proving my point that this isn't about health, it's about hate.

Also, 5'4" and 165 is a BMI of 28.3, not over 30.

And, I volunteer at a battered women's shelter one to two times weekly (depending on the week), where I teach courses to the women and their children about health and fitness, so I actually care deeply about the health of a lot of people.

most peoples weight isn't from just eating. It could be caused by other reasons like Medications, diseases, stress, anxiety, and depression. Why make these students suffer for what might not be their fault?

What the heck are these people thinking...its not like all fat people eat all the time, its caused by different things too, like stress and depression. I think this school needs to worry about what their teachers are doing, they could be searching porn in class, and abusing students and they are worry about the students being fat!!!! So what, students are there to learn not be told that they are fat!!!! I am sure there are fat teachers and they should have to got through the same things as the students...that should lose half of their pay check until they are under a BMI of 30...why just make the students suffer! That isn't far for them...They are there to learn. The school should worry about the things that the teacher are doing and the things they are teaching and not on the lifestyle they are living. You can not make a person lose weight if they don't want to! What would be the motivation...nothing. They could always go to a different school where they are worry about the education and not their weight...I am sure this is going to happen...they are going to lose the overweight students to colleges that will take them for their learning ability and the willingness to learn and not look at the fact that they are overweight! They need to think about this...they really are not helping anyone...they are just going to lose students and make a bad name for their school!

Thank you,
Hope Claypool

hopeclaypool2010@gmail.com

Ok I'm really torn by this but yes, they are a private school...soo if you disagree don't attend them or support them. On one side they aren't saying you have to look like Heidi Klum to graduate, they are saying you have to be under 30 BMI or attend workout classes. On the other hand...it is unfair for the students, who are still young adults btw, who have been raised with unhealthy eating and workout habits. They haven't developed their own heathly body habits yet.